Epsiode 17: Emails to millions don’t work anymore. Here’s how to get personalization right

In this episode, recorded at Shoptalk Fall in Chicago, Amie spoke to Christine McAvoy, head of customer success at Brevo, about consumers’ evolving expectations of personalized communications and the opportunities for brands to step up their game in this space.

Transcript

Intro:

We're busy. We have a lot going on. I'm willing to give you my information if you're going to save me three or four steps.

I'm willing, because again, I know that you're collecting this anyway, but make me feel more supported. You know, I don't want to ask you what is the best brand of sneakers today or things like that. Get in my inbox. Tell me what I'm going to like. 

Amie:

Welcome to Retail Untangled. My name is Amie Later and this is the podcast where we speak to retail industry experts and find our business hacks to help you succeed. You won't find these gems anywhere else and we have some superb stories from the coal face as well as helicopter insights from retail industry leaders. This week we're bringing you insights live from Shop Talk Fall in Chicago.

The demand for personalisation is accelerating, particularly in marketing. And given that it's harder to engage customers than ever before, the potential rewards for brands that are getting this right are huge. Today, I'm joined by Christine McEvoy, Head of Customer Success at Brevo, to try and unlock what personalisation means now and how it's changed over time. 

Christine, personalisation is the focus of more than a couple of the main stage presentations here at Shop Talk. And a common theme really is while the demand for personalised interactions is undeniable, achieving it effectively has become, I think, far more complex in these last couple of years. Can you elaborate on how the consumer perception of personalisation has changed in recent times and what their core expectations are now?

Christine:

Yes, thank you so much. I love this question because it's so much at the heart of what we at Brevo keep top of mind. So, I would say the first thing is, you nailed it. Customers, consumers, we expect this. Personalisation is no longer a scary thing in our inbox. It is, I know why you have my information because we've shared it. So what I would say is one, specifically in the millennial and Gen X market, we're experiencing the expectation for needing a trade, right? 

If I'm going to share this information with you, I'd like to get something back. 

Amie:

In return. 

Christine:

Yes, exactly. Like, I need my name. I want to know that you know when my birthday is. I want to know that you know my favourite products. So it's no longer a nice to have, but a must do, which creates another obstacle for brands, right? They've got to be in this space. 

The second part is, people don't want to be a number anymore, right? Coming out of COVID where we were very, very separate and into this new world, we now have technology that's connecting us. So, you know, maybe back in the day you'd get a card from a loved one with a $10 bill in it. What's replaced that now is an email from my favourite brand with a $10 off of a hundred. Thank you, Sephora. Things like that, that we've come to really expect.

And then the last thing that I think consumers are really very, very used to is the ease of use, right? So personalisation goes beyond just a name and an email, but you know what I like. I don't have to hunt through a hundred pages of different, you know, wide-leg trousers. You know exactly what I like and you're sending it to me in my inbox or on my phone. 

Amie:

Okay. So with so many core communication channels to choose from today, and I mean, brands could be doing so many different things. I'm keen to understand, are there any that stand out as being more effective than others at creating that personalised interaction? 

Christine:

Yeah, so again, email, that's the core. We know we need to be there. Text messaging, SMS, WhatsApp is where I would say for brands, you're going to see a bit more of an impact, right? Our phones are constantly in our hands.

I think it's something crazy, like a three minute turnaround time from when a text message arrives to when it's opened. And the cool thing about this, again, is as a brand, you're saying, hey, Christine, I'm in your inbox, but I'm also here on your phone. And so that thing you forgot to buy yesterday, I've made it so easy for you that I'm sending you a link to it, right? 

So that's the part where I think brands are really under utilising how they can be in both places at once with a lot of ease and sort of that connected tissue that runs from both methods and makes you really stand out to your consumer. 

Amie:

I think you're right. And many consumers, and I would say it's myself included, are less forgiving of poorly executed personalisation efforts now. What are the costs for brands who get it wrong? And what are the common mistakes you're seeing? Because I know just from my perspective, it almost gets you annoyed. If you have, whether it be ad targeting coming towards you after you've bought something, or if it's just your name being put on a generic email and the context is completely irrelevant, you get that annoyed feeling and so you've gone from a situation where, like, let's say four or five years ago, “hi Amie,” was personalisation. 

And now I want all of this relevance and to be hyper-targeted, keen to understand what's the cost for going wrong?

Christine:

Yes. So if you think about it, like the stat says 60% of consumers will come back for a personalised experience. If you're rubbing 60% of your consumers the wrong way, what does that do to the bottom line? 

So for me, again, I've gotten a text message where I've said, this is so wrong. I've honestly thought, did someone sign me up as a joke? Like, is this a funny thing? And reporting it as junk, right? That's the thing where you're like, this is so not for me that not only am I going to ignore it, but like, I'm going to unsubscribe. I'm going to kick it out. 

Amie:

And it's blocked. 

Christine:

Exactly. I don't want to see that anymore. You are not the brand for me. But again, I think it's because of that connection that we're getting and we're getting really as a consumer spoiled by other brands that are playing in this space that make it easier for us to do different things. We're seeing brands come back that were maybe really impactful 10, 15 years ago that are coming in with sort of a renewed energy in the space and say, like, we want to show that we know you. So some of these brands that maybe are a little bit more comfortable because they've been the front runner for a long time are getting challenged by the fact that it's a personalised experience. 

There is a brand called Lola and the Boys that it is kids clothes and they send me text messages, they send me text messages with this was the last thing you looked at. This is going to make it easy. Here's a coupon for that. I'm engaging with them more at a higher price point than say some of the other brands that I do where it's just a generalised email that says you signed up on a list a year and a half ago. 

Amie:

Yeah. And it will be as more people go down that personalised route, you would think that anything generic is going to become that sort of white noise. And then cut through comes from you know, being able to identify with something in whatever channel it is or having it super hyper relevant. 

Christine:

Exactly. And I know for me, again, like we've said, personalised used to be your name is in an email. Now from brands, what I want to see is, you liked this product, here's four other products that might be relevant to you because again, I'm looking for them. But if you're making it easier for me, I'm that much more likely because if I'm thinking of my time, as part of this deal, I want to go where it's faster and it's easier. 

Amie:

100%. 

Christine:

Yeah. And then you have my information saved. Amie:

You have people that are putting the effort to know your journey, know who you are, what you want. It is nice. 

Christine:

Yes

Amie:

Okay. So on the flip side of the cost of not doing it well is obviously the impact of doing it well. So positively, whether it be through customer satisfaction, loyalty or repeat purchases, I'm sure there's some big wins there. Talk me through them.

Christine:

Yeah, absolutely so for me, again, I think of myself as an ultimate consumer, but the funny thing is the more people I talk to, they do as well. And if there is a brand that's giving me some sort of loyalty or share, you get 10, give 10, I'm much more likely to become an advocate for that brand. And that's actually something that we've seen a huge increase in where groups want to have some sort  of loyalty program that doesn't create a lot of extra work because it's not often teams that can just jump in and create this thing from scratch. 

So, you know, if you're a brand that's huge and you can do an app and you can develop all of that, that's really great. But most brands aren't there. So some of the things that we have really seen take off in the last few months at Brevo are the loyalty platform. And again, it's people who want to create a program like this, but maybe haven't even fully shaped it. 

So one of the things that we're really seeing huge interest in at Brevo is the loyalty program because again brands of all different sizes know this is a space they need to be in but again they don't want to develop an app they don't have the full bandwidth for that and what they're seeing is that level, that 60 % of users that are coming for a personalised experience, they'll also come back and say, I want to share my information, I want points, I want to be a return shopper, make this easier for me. 

And so it's one of these things where the relationship becomes very personal without a huge lift for the brand or the customer. 

Amie:

And it makes so much sense in this, there is that sort of expectation there. So we're keen to learn, obviously we're keen to learn from the best. What are some of the brands that are excelling in personalisation and tell me why. 

Christine:

Yeah, absolutely. So there's a brand that we work with at Brevo that I was actually a subscriber to their newsletters prior to them coming. So I was very, very excited. Essentially what they do is they work with retailers and they will, they're in my inbox, they're on my phone and they'll say, hey, Christine, we know you like this brand. Come shop with them and you're going to get X percent back.

To me, that is a reason to get out of bed. That is what I want to do. I didn't need anything from Nike today, but did I not need anything? You're right, I did. So I'm that much more likely to engage, and I love the feeling. Whether it be Girl Math, Savvy Shopper Math, I love the feeling of a deal and getting a reward, and I think a lot of us do.

And so what I really love is not just that they're using my name, they're saying you liked this, they're saying it's your birthday, but they're starting to put us into segments. I know this because of what we do, but I know they've marked me as like, these are brands she likes. So we assume she's under this umbrella. So sometimes it's a brand I've never even shopped at. And I'm like, this is really exciting because I feel like something was curated for me. 

Amie:

I didn't even know I liked it, but I do and that's the power of personalisation. 

Christine:

Exactly. And it's, I think sometimes people feel like there's a fine line between it being creepy that I'm watching- you we always joke that if you say close to your phone, I need a deal for sneakers, then one pops up. 

Amie:

Yeah. 

Christine:

But it's a fine line between that and feeling like this type of personalisation is a personal assistant, right? 

Amie:

I'm keen to understand because that is something that's come up frequently in these last few months, actually is that balance between sort of privacy and personalisation? What's too far? 

Christine:

Yes, I think it's intent right, how you're using the information. Yeah, and again I mean even things as simple as verbiage right if your email or your message is coming across helpful not I don't love things were like “you were last looking at this right?” because you're like that feels kind of too much

Amie:

You're watching me. 

Christine:

Yes. Yeah. But it's like, we thought you would like this, right? Again, now we've changed it from, I'm watching everything you're doing on my website to I'm thinking of you, right? So those are just some simple tweaks that we work on.

Amie:

I like the intent piece because it is true. If you feel like it's being collected for a reason to give you something, then, all is well, because you're getting something out of it. But when they're saying, I've been watching you to deliver you this info so it might make a sale, a little bit creepy. 

Christine:

Exactly. And I think too, especially if you are thinking about where we have a lot of the market today is females of a certain age, right? Regardless of what your life looks like, we're busy. We have a lot going on. I'm willing to give you my information if you're going to save me three or four steps.

I'm willing, because again, I know that you're collecting this anyway, but make me feel more supported. You know, I don't want to ask you what is the best brand of sneakers today or things like that. Get in my inbox. Tell me what I'm going to like. 

Amie:

Yeah, that's good. It's very good. OK, so to wrap it up, what tech trends and innovations do you see shaping the future of marketing personalisation? A big one, because we've obviously changed so much as we've discussed today. It's been, you know.

We've gone from names in emails to being quite unique some time ago. Now that's just expected. What are you predicting? What are you seeing for this next couple of years? 

Christine:

I think we're gonna see brands being much smarter with the data, right? We've kind of come back around. We all know what's happening as consumers. We all know to expect certain things. I think what we're going to see is brands are going to have to have more intent around how they're using data. So if you're using multiple channels, you've got your SMS, you have your email, you're doing push, you're really advanced, you've got a TikTok page, you have the social media, you need to start to connect that to get a better idea of who your consumer is, right? Because you're talking to them in all these different channels.

And so brands are going to have to really connect the dots there and start to have messaging that incorporates the full consumer versus each avenue independently. 

Amie:

Yeah. 

Christine:

Yeah. And so I think really what we'll see is the big box brands are maybe a little slower to do this. And again, some of these ones that are coming up with new ideas and new thoughts are going to lead the charge on that. And you'll start to see others follow. 

Amie:

Is it, you know, with your big box brand, is it, are they slower because of legacy, sort of legacy data and joining those dots for a really big number of people? 

Christine:

Yes, I think too, it's not something they've had to do. 

Amie:

Yeah. 

Christine:

And so it's a really exciting space. If you're our brand that says, you know, we aren't this big box retailer. 

Amie:

Yeah. 

Christine:

We can be a little faster. We can have a little more fun. Like we can try something that maybe another group wouldn't do because of all the moving pieces. So I think that'll be a really exciting time. Even before that, we were talking a little bit about brands that are really exciting and interesting and seeing some of these sort of stodgy, like older brands thinking they're hitting it out of the park. And we're all kind of like, no, that's not it anymore. We want personalisation. We want to feel connected. I don't want you to sell me what you think I want.

I want you to know me and actually come and show up and be like, this is what you're interested in. Here's what we have to offer. we're actually even with Bravo seeing some of our brands that kind of fall in the in-between space go smaller, right? Work with a smaller segment. An email that's going out to millions doesn't make as much sense anymore as being really smart about your segments and saying, I'm going to send a very specific email to this group who loves this content, who was engaged, who has bought, has clicked and they're getting better results because of that.